Association Membership Proposals

Fees

Postby seasickwhale » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:20 am

Hello everyone,

I am amongst the first to join up and paid the original membership fee happily to keep going and better what used to be in the Yahoo Group. The old Yahoo site and the current forum have been an invaluable source of information and feedback.

As we seem to have several hundred pounds in the kitty with not much in running costs I, would suggest to keep it as is. Let everyone have access to all the material on our site, and let those pay who actually join the Association.

Those who are true believers will pay the modest fee and join; others may choose not to and participate for free. I am sure however that we can tolerate this, in the hope that an open forum will generate more good in raised interest for our CC19 than bad in "exploitation" by free-riders.

As to generating income by any sort of adverts, I would be strongly opposed. I am very happy that our site is free of spam and adverts of any kind.
Happy Sailing

Stephan Radke
CC52 "Herr Nilsson"
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Postby Chris Wicks » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:53 pm

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far to these proposals.
I have no doubt that given enough volunteers to keep the forum going it will be sustainable in the future. The money required to keep it running is minimal. So in proposing membership fees I am looking beyond just maintaining what we have now. There is consistent positive feedback about the value of the forum. Over the years there has been some criticism (often unfair in my view) of the management of the CC19A being in the hands of one person. Now as we evolve and mature as a group we have established a committee, so that responsibility for operating the association can be shared. Some members would like more active participation in events, rallies and meetings and to become more of a club than just an on line 'virtual club'...

I am one of those people who would like to belong to something more tangible than what we have now.

So when someone joins the forum it is reasonable to ask them if they wish to join and become a member of the CC19 Associtation. After 12 months have elapsed I think people will know if they want to join or not. I would not object to someone remaining on the forum and not become a member of the CC19, but my interest is in those who do.

Those who become 'club' members will be able to participate in the running of the club. By raising some small amounts of funds the members can decide how the funds should be spent. The making of a small donation to an adopted charity helps raise our stature and gives us a purpose. By having a process of membership we the members can put forward ideas on spending and so we move forward.

Users of the forum are invited to select a user name. Those who move on to being full association members hopefully will use real names. I'm unlikely to sail outside Greek waters but I travel across Europe and spend some winter months in the UK so it would be nice as a club member to make contact and meet up with other members occasionally. Cape Cutter owners are still few are often far between but I think now is an excellent opportunity to grow into something greater than we are now.

That summarises what has prompted me to make the proposals about membership.

Thanks

Chris
CC 67 Kaliope
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Membership

Postby Simon » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:13 pm

I wholly agree with your latest post, Chris.

Hopefully we will move forward as a club.

Simon

new owner of CC87 "Sea Badger 2"
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Membership Fees

Postby Richard Rickard » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:47 pm

I quite understand Chris' good intentions, but I am also one of those who thinks we have this the wrong way round. If you wish to create an exclusive members forum by charging a fee then fine, but what is the problem with others looking in as now? Surely the more interest the merrier. Secondly, surely the better approach is: if we have an identified need for money, then consider raising it to meet that need. But no purpose for these funds has been stated - so we just put unneeded cash into some unspecified pot (which will need to be administered) for some unspecified reason. Meanwhile we already have some £800 sitting unused elsewhere. Thirdly, the charity proposal. Again, recognising Chris' good intention and Mike's excellent efforts on behalf of his charity, I do not think that we should combine Association fees with charitable giving. This is a matter for individuals, and could lead in future to questions over who decides how much to give to which charity - not something that we should get in to.
Sorry to be a party pooper. I don't have a problem with paying £5 per se, and would be happy to do so to support this excellent forum. But what is it for? If we don't have a proper use for the money, then let's not get into the administrative debacle of trying to raise it, bank it and account for it.

Richard (CC50 - Nettie)
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Postby Dennis » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:15 pm

Hello all

As a member of the "Virtual Committee" I have been following this thread with interest.

My views are exactly the same as Stephan (Seasickwhale), indeed I could have simply copied his post and put my name at the end of it.

I am a member of a number of other forums on a variety of subjects and when I ask myself the question, would I be willing to pay £5 for the privilege of accessing those forums, the answer is probably no.

However, I did pay £25 back in March 2009 to help fund the setting up of the Cape Cutter Association and I am willing to pay an annual fee if that is what it takes to keep things going. The question would be, what would members want this money to be spent on?

At present anyone can access the forum as a "guest" and they have access to nearly all of the threads/posts but not the albums or members list etc. Anyone who registers, either as a Non Association Member (no cost) or as a full CC19 Association Member (£25 for life!) can then gain full access, they can post and create albums and see other members albums etc.

I think the (full) forum access should remain available to (non paying) members in order to "spread the word" about our wonderful little yacht. The question then remains, what additional benefits do (or could) full members receive?
Cheers

Dennis

CC19 #100 Mary Ann
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Postby ianrmaciver » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:13 pm

Richard / Dennis ,
Hear! Hear!
Regarding social networks , I enjoyed my first canter through the Facebook page , think it's a good idea to continue. I was relieved that I wasn't asked for my d.o.b. , or inside leg measurement .
What I would like is a list of launch sites , ease of access , facilities etc. around the coast.
I've used an existing site which seems useful for ribs and jet ski users , but experience of CC19 users would be invaluable.
Please keep going "committee" , even us closet Canuters think the forum is too valuable to lose.
Ian
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Postby SimonW » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:56 pm

I have no problems with a membership fee, but I do think there needs to be some thought on why there is a fee and what it is used for. I am very happy to have any fee go to a worthwhile charitable cause like Mike's, but think that there needs to be a clear reason for its presence.

Apart from time I don't know if any of the online activities cost the association anything? If they do not, then I a not sure it would be beneficial to lock people out after a while as its the access to forums and logs that keep interest up in the boat, which is a good thing.

The Shrimper association won't let you join unless you are a current owner of a Shrimper and won't send you their newsletter even when you volunteer to pay. I found that a very odd approach as it seems elitist and puts people off.
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Postby Black Sheep » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:28 pm

Dear all,

Being a 25 GBP member of the CC Association and a former member of the Shrimper Association I really can't see the issue for paying a small administrative fee. It is hard to believe that a 5 GBP fee would exclude people having a serious interest in CC relevant information (nowadays high quality apps, music and other downloads cost typically a modest fee as well).

In my view our bank accpunt should be used to maintain the website and to support further development of the CC community. In general I am a strong believer in charity; however I suggest not to mix up Association objectives with charity goals.

Kind regards,
Michel
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Revised proposals in light of feedback...

Postby Chris Wicks » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:34 pm

Hi,
Just to thank everyone for their responses so far. I think they are really useful in helping the committee to make a simple plan to bond the whole thing together.

I have picked up on some of the suggestions to modify my own views. Overall it seems important now to ensure we do end up with a simple but resilient structure, so that when a web master wants to step down or move on there is a committee and a pool of members ready and willing to ensure succession.

I am thinking to put forward

1. The forum can remain open to anyone who wants to access it (no change)
2. Non association members can register and access everything now indefinitely (no change from where we are now)
3. Everyone registering as a forum user will be offered to option to sign up as a full member for a fee of £5 per year.
4. The funds raised would seek to maintain a balance to ensure the estimated forum expenses can be paid for 5 years ahead.
5. For the first year that a £1 donation from new members goes to the Associations adopted charity. (in reality this won't be very much)

NB... as a first step to building us into a well founded Association we have approached Mike Brooke and he has accepted the role of Honorary President. As he continues on his current round of lecture tours fund raising for 'Fight for Sight' as a result of his round UK voyage in his CC19 he will promote our association and therefore in suggesting and adopting this charity it is one directly and uniquely linked to the boats we own or like.

6. The paid up members of the CC19A will be the ones to decide through an annual on line AGM how the funds are used and maintained for the years ahead. They can vote whether or not to continue any charitable donations as the decision making for such matters will be in the hands of paid up members.

NB In respect of the original members who made a £25 payment I suggest they can agree that the £25 fee is to last 5 years and then continue with £5 annual payments. However as the original proposal was for a one off payment for life or until funds run out those persons could remain full association members without further payment and could go in a category as 'founder members'.

That is it in a nutshell. Sorry I'm a bit long winded but it is simple and straight forward and gets us properly established for the future and takes on board just about every comment made in the feedback on this thread.

I have no vested interest in any of the charities and have still never met a CC19 owner face to face... Hopefully I might sometime soon. I am equally happy to stand down from the committee at any time as my input is only intended to keep us going and to establish a process for association membership and long term succession.

Cheers

Chris
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RE: Revised proposals in light of feedback...

Postby seasickwhale » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:56 am

Hello Chris,

thank you for considering and balancing out the many views and opinions presented.

I think you have come up with a rather salomonic proposal, with which I can happily agree.

I would still ask to consider, if we should really mix charity with the assocition. This view is mostly a matter of principle. I give often and freely to charity, but I can't see why we should muddle things up here. This remains just a minor niggle however, and the cause is most probably worthy (I have not looked into Mike's charitv myself). So if that is the majority view, I will of course join in giving.
Happy Sailing

Stephan Radke
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