Rudder Problems

[Toby]

I thought I'd share two separate problems I've had with my rudder. This will be of interest to those of us with older Cape Cutters, but I think even those with newer boats might bear this info in mind - certainly from now on I'll be taking a regular close look at my rudder!

Problem #1
A Cape Cutter rudder is made of marine plywood sheathed in fibreglass.

Last year I was coming past Hurst Point on the Solent when the tiller came away from the rudder. This was because a barely perceptible crack had appeared at the top of the rudder. Water got in and rotted the wooden rudder structure inside. This process was concealed from view, as the fibreglass sheathing of the rudder makes it impossible to know what is happening inside, but the attached picture tells the story.

[ATTACH]25[/ATTACH]

You can see that the bolt that secures the tiller to the rudder hasn't got much actual rudder structure to support it, and the constant leverage on what has to be a weak point will work to weaken it. Rest assured, it will come away when you least want it to!

If this happens, incidentally, there is no hope of repair. You're looking at a whole new rudder! Which ain't cheap.

I'm in discussion with Bob and Norma about fabricating additional steel supports to strengthen this area of the rudder. Meanwhile, you might like to take a close look at the area where the tiller meets the rudder for hairline cracks.

Problem #2
Ladybird is one of the later South African hulls. The rudder pintle mountings were not well made. Last weekend the lower one failed, followed by the upper one. We travelled from Bembridge to Southsea with no rudder, only the outboard. It would never have occurred to me to check the rudder pintles on a boat less than 8 years old, but it seems should have. Replacements are going to cost excess of £100.

Tiresome cost, but it's all still worth it, though!

Toby
CC31 Ladybird

[Dennis]

Hello Toby

Thanks for flagging this issue.
It is useful to know.
Will add it the list of things that need checking regularly.

Rudder pintles are an issue with many boats. At least the CC19 has a straight forward fabricated arrangement which is easy to repair/replace.

The last thing I want to happen, is lose the rudder at a critical moment.

Hoping for the weather to improve so that I can get some more sailing before the boat has to come out of the water at the end of this month.

Cheers

Dennis

CC19 #100 Mary Ann

[Simon Head]

Hi Toby

Interesting- yours is on of the earlier MK3 Cape Cutters (Hull 28 I think was the first with Hull 55 the last before HM took over production).

I have heard of the blade cracking at the bottom along the rear edge to the top but I have never heard or seen this failure.

Water can also enter the blade from where the 2 pintle sockets are bolted through the blade. I took both of these out when I purchased my boat and sikaflexed them in. They seem OK.

The quality of the pintles does seem to vary on the SA boats.

Regards

Simon

[Toby]

I think we have to accept that water will get into the rudder. It is after all a hollow fibreglass encasement of a plywood inner structure. It is prone to cracking and water will get in, either through cracks in the fibreglass, or where the bolts go through it. Every time I lift the boat out, I see water coming out of the rudder, even the new one I had to fit last year. I'm sure other CC owners will have noticed this too.

Does this matter? I don't think so, because in general it's a tough component. Where you have to be vigilant is in the weak spot: I'll be monitoring where the tiller is affixed to the rudder in future. That's a definite weak spot, because it's where the maximum torque (if you will) is exerted on the rudder at a point where there is the minimum substance to resist it, so if it rots invisibly inside it will fail unexpectedly - but it will fail when extra pressure being exerted on it, i.e., sailing conditions which are a bit lumpy.

As I indicated in my first message I think the answer is to bolster the way the tiller is fixed by bolting additional steel supports to the rudder, overlying the ones that fix the tiller on, and sharing the same bolt through the top.

By the way, if this happens to you, and you don't have a paddle to act as a jury rudder, the solution is to take the bolt out of the steel supports at the end of the tiller. This leaves you with the two steel supports and these will help you prong the tiller onto the rudder and get you home.

[Chris Wicks]

Kaliope CC67 is an early HM boat. It had problems with cracking on the leading and trailing edge of the rudder below the water line. Both these places have been reinforced over previous winters with reinforced fibreglass mat.... Also the weak spot at top where the tiller connects has be worked on with some gel coat repairs and a s/s tiller bolt sleeve put in place. In August I noticed cracking around the top and flexing of the rudder / tiller connection when sailing with weather helm.... I realised it was close to failure and had a quick repair where by the top was rebuilt in reinforced mat (luckily I had some Honnor Marine Oxford blue gel coat)... But now Kaliope is out of the water the same problem is there. Plus water ingress as usual.

I have now drilled a few holes in the base of the rudder and pressure washed the inside. I will have the bottom edge of the rudder reinforced and the top cut back and rebuilt further with reinforced mat. Like Toby suggested I think it needs some way to spread the torque load at the top of the rudder that is so evident with a weather helm which I frequently experience when sailing in about F4 with full sail... Any other similar experiences or good ideas. I have a whole winter to sort it out once it fully dries out inside. How much wooden core is inside the rudder. Just at the top??? Sikaflex thoroughly around pintles for sure... in fact do everything I can think of...

Finally as the rudder failed in it's first season I was supplied with a replacement rudder by HM. I still have not commissioned it as I keep repairing the old one time and again. Maybe the most repaired rudder on a 7 year old CC (given that it has never been pranged)...

Hmmmm !!

Cheers...

[x-man12345]

Hello Chris,
We now own Ladybird (Toby's old CC).
We also have problems at the top of the rudder with cracked gel coat to at least 5 inches down.
It is quite clear this is a weak point in the design. All forces of the tiller act through a single bolt. This puts a lot of torque at that point.
I originally spoke to Bob and he is going to send me some gel coat. That was before I took the boat out of the water and had a good look at it.
It needs a decent repair and ideally two stainless steel cheek plates fabricated for the top of the rudder stock. The tiller side plates could then act on these cheek plates and distribute the torque exerted by the tiller arm.
I have sent a couple of emails to Bob about this but no reply as yet.
I think Labybird's rudder is only a couple of years old.:confused:
Ian

[Dennis]

Hello Ian

Congratulations on your successful rudder repair.

The photos in your album look good. That is one very substantial rudder/tiller interface you have built. Serious weather helm should not be an issue

Does Bob (HM) know what you have done?
I suspect he would be interested in offering your modification to anyone interested.

Your boat certainly looks very tidy. Let us know how the roller furling performs, I am still dithering!

[Chris Wicks]

I have just seen Ian's rudder repair and I'm impressed and a little envious to be honest. A friend of mine is undertaking Kaliope's rudder repair but has proposed a more complicated solution. To cut off the top of the rudder and to fabricate a s/s frame to be glassed inside the top of the rudder and two lugs to protrude at the top of the rudder to which the tiller will be secured...

I think Ian's solution looks a lot simpler and probably therefore better... I'll let you know what we finally come up with.

Cheers

Chris

[Chris Wicks]

I have now had details of Ian's repair to Ladybird and I am very impressed with what he has come up with as a solution. Kaliope's repair will now be the same as Ladybird's (hopefully). It seems surprising that there are not more examples of this problem coming to light as it is such a weak spot on an otherwise sturdy boat. I will encourage Honnor Marine to either incorporate this as a modification or at least to fabricate the repair sections of stainless steel as a customer repair kit...

[Chris Wicks]

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151603808954113.1073741828.559084112&type=1&l=f269fdc4ad

Here are a few pictures of Kaliope's repair. We discovered the leading edge of the rudder from the top to just above the water line had failed where the two halves of the rudder were joined. It turned out there was a lot of gelcoat along this seam and hardly any GRP mat. When we reinforced the tiller / rudder connection last summer we then transferred the load further down to this seam causing failure. It has now been reinforced with Kevlar reinforced mat. A nice job. As I didn't have enough Oxford blue gel coat I have a small area of GRp that is a bit lighter than it should be, but I hope now a rudder that is strong and sealed against water ingress...